|
Post by Travel Time on Mar 11, 2016 3:58:57 GMT
Because you may live in Newcastle but your site could be in Cornwall that's a lot of travel time to go for your lunch lol
|
|
|
Post by Timeforachange on Mar 11, 2016 16:00:41 GMT
[quote. Don’t just take my word 2 cases that went to court
Do on call workers, who are not at their workplace, still need to be paid at least the National Minimum Wage? There has been much case law over recent years about when on call workers are entitled to be paid. The Scottish EAT has now added to the vast amount of case law on the matter, by hearing the case of; Truslove and another v Scottish Ambulance Service. Truslove confirms the current position, which is that where a worker is required to remain at the workplace and available for work with a view to providing their services at some point, this will amount to working-time and not a rest period. This is the case even if the worker is allowed to sleep and so the worker is entitled to be paid for their time. In Truslove, the employees were paramedics and the employer required staff to work at different stations from their normal, daily station. The employer set response targets for staff of three minutes and employees were able to stay at alternative accommodation. The question for the EAT was this; were the paramedics entitled to be paid, at least the National Minimum Wage, for their time spent on call within the three mile radius? The answer was yes. The reason for this was that the employer had control over the employees, as they had to stay within the three minute radius, even though the paramedics were not at the workplace. This case will impact employers in situations where recruitment of on call staff is commonplace, for instance in the holiday, hospitality and care industries, as the effect of this case undoubtedly extends the case law from instances where workers are entitled to be paid whilst they are at the workplace, to where they are not, provided the employer still has control over them. This case can be distinguished from cases where a worker is “on call” overnight. Where a worker is Case 2 “on call” and the night-time work is not the essential nature of the worker’s job, any time spent not actually responding to a call is usually regarded as “non-working time” for which they are not entitled to be paid. During this time the worker is at liberty to go about their activities as they wish (including sleeping) and will only be entitled to be paid where time is actually spent responding to a “call”. The key difference then between such “on call” working and Mrs Whittlestone’s case, which was emphasised by the EAT, is the fact that Mrs Whittlestone’s duty during the sleepover shift was to be physically present at the service user’s home. Her activities during sleepover hours were limited and in the words of the Judge, Mrs Whittlestone was not able to “slip out for a late night movie or fish and chips So if the HSAs have to be 'on site' then they need to be paid even after 8pm or 11pm. Or if not then they can choose where to site their van?
|
|
|
Post by Night Shift on Mar 11, 2016 20:25:12 GMT
[quote. Anyone thinking the same? Rotated and working until 8pm, then answering Clubs mobile phone whilst not being paid, 11pm checking toilets and locking up, then 'On Call' for remainder of the night also clutching the Clubs mobile phone, again not being paid. Working in social care in a past life, being paid a sleep over rate then your full rate of pay when woken which were also collated in your weekly hours of work, I am sure this is still correct in most Jobs. Looks like we are being shafted in a different way, same rules different way. Don’t just take my word 2 cases that went to court
Do on call workers, who are not at their workplace, still need to be paid at least the National Minimum Wage? There has been much case law over recent years about when on call workers are entitled to be paid. The Scottish EAT has now added to the vast amount of case law on the matter, by hearing the case of; Truslove and another v Scottish Ambulance Service. Truslove confirms the current position, which is that where a worker is required to remain at the workplace and available for work with a view to providing their services at some point, this will amount to working-time and not a rest period. This is the case even if the worker is allowed to sleep and so the worker is entitled to be paid for their time. In Truslove, the employees were paramedics and the employer required staff to work at different stations from their normal, daily station. The employer set response targets for staff of three minutes and employees were able to stay at alternative accommodation. The question for the EAT was this; were the paramedics entitled to be paid, at least the National Minimum Wage, for their time spent on call within the three mile radius? The answer was yes. The reason for this was that the employer had control over the employees, as they had to stay within the three minute radius, even though the paramedics were not at the workplace. This case will impact employers in situations where recruitment of on call staff is commonplace, for instance in the holiday, hospitality and care industries, as the effect of this case undoubtedly extends the case law from instances where workers are entitled to be paid whilst they are at the workplace, to where they are not, provided the employer still has control over them. This case can be distinguished from cases where a worker is “on call” overnight. Where a worker is Case 2 “on call” and the night-time work is not the essential nature of the worker’s job, any time spent not actually responding to a call is usually regarded as “non-working time” for which they are not entitled to be paid. During this time the worker is at liberty to go about their activities as they wish (including sleeping) and will only be entitled to be paid where time is actually spent responding to a “call”. The key difference then between such “on call” working and Mrs Whittlestone’s case, which was emphasised by the EAT, is the fact that Mrs Whittlestone’s duty during the sleepover shift was to be physically present at the service user’s home. Her activities during sleepover hours were limited and in the words of the Judge, Mrs Whittlestone was not able to “slip out for a late night movie or fish and chips So if the HSAs have to be 'on site' then they need to be paid even after 8pm or 11pm. Or if not then they can choose where to site their van?
|
|
|
Post by So on Mar 11, 2016 21:02:20 GMT
Under new rules you don't have to remain on site at all from 8 till 11...that's the law…..is it the situation on your site? You also don't have to be on site after you have locked up either...nip out to the casino/night club whatever You only have to return at start of your next work period. When called out you are working again
What rates of pay are made when called out?
|
|
|
Post by Mmmmmmm on Mar 11, 2016 21:10:49 GMT
Are you being asked to stay on site after8pm if on call out? Can you cash up at 8pm and leave late arrivals to a system of pre-completed info packs ?
|
|
|
Post by Night Shift on Mar 11, 2016 21:18:11 GMT
Under new rules you don't have to remain on site at all from 8 till 11...that's the law…..is it the situation on your site? You also don't have to be on site after you have locked up either...nip out to the casino/night club whatever You only have to return at start of your next work period. When called out you are working again What rates of pay are made when called out?
|
|
|
Post by oapaswarden on Mar 11, 2016 21:33:07 GMT
So it looks like the CCC has adopted the same system as we use. Here at the CC with maybe a few differences
1 We absolutely don't allow late arrivals to check in and its at the callout staffs discretion to sell gas late( we do because we get a share)...because of this callout is hassle free
2 we are paid 15-30 min to lock up and check /clean Loo's
3 whilst we are allowed to be off site during call out most staff stay because its quiet and were knackered
It seems someone is trying to have it both ways if they are insisting you stay onsite during call out
Best of luck to every one in both networks this season also.....my back is aching after using the pressure washer all day so I'm of to bed...first to sleep can snore and keep the other awake!
|
|
|
Post by Jammer on Mar 11, 2016 22:32:31 GMT
|
|
|
Post by Watch your back on Mar 12, 2016 8:06:20 GMT
Watch your back with this one. The CCC have been forced to make changes and have a resentful "see if you like it" attitude. They will drag their feet and fight to keep the system of unpaid workers (you) working till 11pm for free.
|
|
|
Post by Night Shift on Mar 12, 2016 18:29:16 GMT
Watch your back with this one. The CCC have been forced to make changes and have a resentful "see if you like it" attitude. They will drag their feet and fight to keep the system of unpaid workers (you) working till 11pm for free. if we have the phone from 11 till 7 do we not have to be paid standby time ? should the gates be locked are we not detaining people?
|
|
|
Post by Admin on Mar 13, 2016 9:43:29 GMT
WERE AWAY!
OMG! How quickly the new season comes around,sunny weather for some is helping with the groundwork whilst an early Easter is bringing the punters in prematurely!
After a few weeks it will be a blur again A few changes around the networks this season.The CCC have left it very late to start to change thier illegal work practices ,the jury is still out to if they mean it. The Cc have lost 2 regional managers within a few months...south east's Simon went first followed by Sw's Bro Potter.....both well liked . Rumours are Bro was asked to cover the SE as well and that went down like a dog poo in the awning.Bro potter was the only regional manager remaining after Windeactt replaced the rest,he was liked for his no nonsense"old school" style.He will be missed and we wish him well
Easy camp continues to raise its ugly head on a club site near you...best of luck with those.the CC is still awash with money and is tempted to look at sites it owns as cash cows...redevelopments/lodges outright sale etc
As usual were here for you,be it grumble,gripe or praise
Have a good one Admin
AFIBC
|
|
|
Post by Just wondering? on Mar 13, 2016 10:57:05 GMT
How many assistants will actually stay inside their units if a camper, or campers, have decided to re-enact Glastonbury on the site? Loud music and drunken behaviour until the early hours of the morning, people shouting, kids running round and so on. We've all had occasions where we've gone out to quieten things down. Are we really expected to just let it happen then deal with the fall out next morning? No, because we live on site and don't want the row anymore than the campers do!
Are there really assistants on two couple sites who will sit in their vans whilst their managers are dealing with a queue of vans at 20.30, or later? Are you going to sit there in the office between 12.00 and 13.00 with a queue of vans outside waiting for 13.00 to get them pitched? Of course not!
Is there anyone who will really leave the site after the gates are locked to go home, or nightclubbing? We're not 19 anymore! We are all by nature helping people. It's why we came into the job. Many will have had a similar "helping job" before this life. It would take a major change of personality to do anything else.
The simple truth is that the vast majority will still turn out to help each other, keep the peace and generally get on with things. There will be very little change on the ground, except now we know we're shafting ourselves instead of them doing it for us!
|
|
|
Post by i wont do this on Mar 13, 2016 12:23:24 GMT
How many assistants will actually stay inside their units if a camper, or campers, have decided to re-enact Glastonbury on the site? Loud music and drunken behaviour until the early hours of the morning, people shouting, kids running round and so on. We've all had occasions where we've gone out to quieten things down. Are we really expected to just let it happen then deal with the fall out next morning? No, because we live on site and don't want the row anymore than the campers do! Are there really assistants on two couple sites who will sit in their vans whilst their managers are dealing with a queue of vans at 20.30, or later? Are you going to sit there in the office between 12.00 and 13.00 with a queue of vans outside waiting for 13.00 to get them pitched? Of course not! Is there anyone who will really leave the site after the gates are locked to go home, or nightclubbing? We're not 19 anymore! We are all by nature helping people. It's why we came into the job. Many will have had a similar "helping job" before this life. It would take a major change of personality to do anything else. The simple truth is that the vast majority will still turn out to help each other, keep the peace and generally get on with things. There will be very little change on the ground, except now we know we're shafting ourselves instead of them doing it for us! is this someone from HQ SITES department willing this to happen? don't think so we have been shafted enough
|
|
|
Post by What would help on Mar 13, 2016 13:18:38 GMT
Yes just wondering ,we are "helping people" and the great majority of us do muck in. What pisses everyone off is when hr and managers take this good attitude and put it in the rota for free
|
|
|
Post by Just wondering? on Mar 15, 2016 20:10:17 GMT
I'm not from HQ and I've never worked with managers who have taken us for granted and abused the rota. I've heard of them from other assistants but for the last 6 years we've been working with people who give as much as they take. HQ have no idea how this job works and whilst they may issue directives and so on no manager I've spoken to is prepared to work anyone more than they do.
I just wondered who the new system will work in practice and the points I made are mine alone. The managers we're working for this season have said we won't be abused and have asked us to give our input in making the rotas. We won't be having separate days off, we'll be having two days off and we will be back in our van when the office shuts at 6. Then until 8 we'll be answering the intercom if people arrive late. They have stated they won't pitch off roaders after 8, if they can't be bothered to ring, we won't be bothered to let them on! Sunday afternoons will be "on the bell" unless we get arrivals we can chill at the van. We'll have a walk round at 10.30 and lock the gate at 11 when on lates. The half hour will be rota'd as an hour.
All in all we're looking forward to what the season brings and having a laugh at the campers and a whinge at the antics of H/Orrifice!
Good season everyone.
|
|